Big Six loved the Z!
APBA Blog reader Martin posed a question:
I have a question:
According to Zach’s handbook, the 1912 GTOP VOL.2 New York Giants Christy Mathewson has an AYZZ (310 IP 34W). Yet, The 1902 Pirates GTOP Vol.3 has; Tannehill 231IP 25W, Phillippe 272 IP 26W!!!, Leever 221 IP 31W as AYZ, AYZ and BYZ
respectively.How could Tannehill NOT get a ZZ. Can anyone please explain?
Martin’s question is a valid one. 1912 Mathewson comes out to 1.0 walks per 9 IP and 1902 Tannehill does as well. So what gives? Why doesn’t Tannehill get the ZZ?
There is an explanation. While not officially noted by the Company, it has been conventional wisdom that the APBA cardmakers do not use the stat innings pitched to determine control ratings like W, Z, and ZZ. Instead, it is suggested that they use Batters Faced which believe it or not, can make a big difference.
In this particular case, it’s a close call. 1912 Christy Mathewson faced 1,263 batters and walked 34 of them. 1902 Jesse Tannehill faced significantly less, 895, but also walked only 25.
| 1902 Tannehill | 1912 Mathewson | |
| Walks | 25 | 34 |
| Batters Faced | 895 | 1263 |
| 2.79% | 2.69% |
When you work out the figures, Big Six barely edges out Tannehill.
I will of course, note that Tannehill and Mathewson come from different seasons in this example. I’m just thinking out loud but I’m thinking they implement some sort of league adjustments that we’re not privy.
Regardless, it was good question, Martin. I remember when the rule of thumb a couple decades ago was that if a pitcher allowed a walk for every three innings or less, he would get a Z. That has gone by the wayside in favor of the Batters Faced approach.
thanks Martin!
Photo by Paul Thompson, restored by Michel Vuijlsteke – This image is available from the United States Library of Congress‘s Prints and Photographs division under the digital ID
I didn’t realize they change it to batters faced. Thanks for the info Tom!
Hi Guys!
Great,interesting too!…And like the game folks say in their rules..IT’S YOUR GAME!..YOU can innovate to your heart’s content!
Rollin’ Regards,
Jim
Kudos to Thomas for the great photo, the great caption, and the analysis. But what about 1902 Deacon Phillippe? He had an amazingly low 26 walks in 277 IP–AND he
faced 1068 batters giving him a microscopic rating of .242, which is much lower than Matty’s 2.69. Zach’s handbook says Phillippe is an AYZ. If that is true, He was robbed and it should be corrected. If any pitcher in the history of baseball earned his double ZZ,
it was Deacon Phillippe of the 1902 Pittsburgh Pirates.
Martin Greer
Martin, you need to consider the context of the season in which each pitcher generated his stats. In 1902 NL there were 16.08 PA for every BB; in 1912 NL there were 12.02 PA for every BB. 1902 Phillippe allowed walks at a rate 10% lower than 1912 Mathewson in a league that walked 25% less overall. Mathewson is facing opponents with an average of 3 14s on their card, while Phillippe’s opposition averages 2.25 14s.
Adjusted for the season in which the stats were generated, Matty’s performance is considerably more impressive than Phillippe’s. Hence, the ZZ for Mathewson and the Z for Phillippe.
Fun fact: the son of Reece Witherspoon and Ryan Phillippe is also named Deacon Phillippe. But does the kid have a curveball?
https://www.hellomagazine.com/travel/2016072132538/reese-witherspoon-deacon-phillippe-hiking-snapchat/
I apperciate the response. That’s interesting bruinskip and could very well be the right explanation (thanks if so). But i wonder if it is;
If 26 walks in 277 IPand a .242 BFP didn’t earn him a ZZ, how few walks did he need? 2.25 14’s project to 9 14’s per 144 AB . Phillippe faced 1068 batters which would put his walk forecast at 74-what a single Z =ball would stop (1068%144). It looks like a ZZ would come closer to his total–but your the sabr numbers guy
Thanks
I apperciate the response. That’s interesting bruinskip and could very well be the right explanation (thanks if so). But i wonder if it is;
If 26 walks in 277 IPand a .242 BFP didn’t earn him a ZZ, how few walks did he need? 2.25 14’s project to 9 14’s per 144 AB . Phillippe faced 1068 batters which would put his walk forecast at 74-what a single Z =ball would stop (1068%144). It looks like a ZZ would come closer to his total–but your the sabr numbers guy
Thanks